WCOM -- Withold Comments, Only Monitor

Fuck yes. You're going to have to wait until I'm off work but I'll definitely do a through run-down of what I've learned so far when I get home.

I'd like to preface everything by pointing out that this is an amazing hobby that's both challenging and rewarding, but takes more money than you would think. If you go for a 29/30 gallon freshwater set-up you're probably looking at around 200 dollars. Live plants? Add another 100 or more. 50 Gallons will cost you a little bit more, but not much (only extra money would be from extra substrate, fish, and decor). The problem with the 50 though is that it'll probably be a bitch to do water changes because you have to change around 20% of the water every two weeks unless you have a heavily planted aquarium.

If money is a barrier, you can also go with the classic 5-10 gallon + Centerpeice fish setup, where you just have one centerfish (usually a  betta or gourami ) occupying the top of the aquarium and shrimp or catfish at the bottom. That'll probably run you anywhere from 50-125 depending on whether you want plants or not.

I am leaning towards 50, I'd like it to be impressive in size (this will be the feature of my living room, I don't have a TV so I need something to look at).  Can you, painstakingly, describe the water changing process?  I have a pretty solid amount of free time and am quite patient, I also enjoy menial cleaning and maintenance so I'm not concerned about any extra work that a 50 gallon might pose

The process is actually pretty easy, I said 50 would be more of a bitch because you probably will have to go back and forth between the tank and the sink/bathtub a few times.

Basically you need 3 things, a bucket/tub, a water siphon, and water conditioner. Use the siphon to start draining the water (just squeeze it a few times), take out a few bucketloads of water, and then refill it using conditioned tap water (just add the conditioner to the water before you put it in). Once in a while you'd also want to scrub the sides of the tank to get rid of visible algae that may grow in the tank, or you can buy a few nerite snails who love eating that stuff. They poop a good amount though, so it's a tradeoff.

Petco is having their $1 per gallon tank sale right now so I would buy the tank from them. Here are the dimensions of tanks http://alysta.com/books/fishtank.htm so you can get an idea of how much floorspace they take up. Breeders are tanks that have a longer width from front to back, and Long are tanks that are well, long. Don't get a high tank because while they may look cool, it severely limits what fish you can get.

Here is some eye candy

http://www.adaaust.com.au/gallery/gallery.htm

This is like pro-level freshwater though, and takes a ridiculous amount of time and money

Man those fish have it good. 

I never knew there was so much to fish-keeping. 

Will be going to PetCo, $1 per gallon is way too good to pass up.  Am I correct that I can very easily buy the system in components, so that I don't need to buy everything right now, I can buy the tank and then research lights/pumps/filters/etc...

@Eternal: yeah it's pretty crazy what people manage to do with fish tanks. There's a variety of ways you can go low-maintenance, but if you want to keep sensitive fish it's quite a lot of work. Saltwater tanks are even more intricate and cost a ridiculous amount of money to set up. Search saltwater tank on google images. Each one of those rocks/coral you see are like 50 dollars each lol

@Creed Definitely. First thing I would do is go to petco with some of your tapwater to get it tested (free) and buy the tank. When they test the water, pay attention to what they say the PH and hard/softness of the water is, as that'll help you choose fish later. Don't buy any fish yet, they should go in last after you have everything set up.

If you have time read up on cycling http://www.firsttankguide.net/cycle.php What it means for you essentially is that you can't fully stock your aquarium until your bacterial ecosystem is complete. That doesn't mean you can't add any fish, just that you'll have to keep the numbers low for a while. A lot of sites say it takes 6-8 weeks to have the cycling done completely but it's not taken me nearly that long on any of my tanks. If you really want to save time buy the product Tetra Safestart and follow the instructions. It's supposed to bring about a complete cycle within 2 weeks, which means you can add new fish every other day or so until you hit your limit. (do not use water conditioner if you use this)

Yeah, i've read up on cycling, planning on doing that (in either the full, or abbreviated, steroid induced version).  Which is good because it gives me time to plan things out instead of rushing into it!

What is the "limit" you talk about hitting regarding adding fish?  Does each fish have a kind of volume requirement or is it more of a rule of thumb?

Also can you explain why "tall" is a bad thing?

My first fish was a beta (siamese fighting fish). Then I had some gold fish which sucked. Then I had tiger oscars. The oscars were the best fish ever.

More gay fish talk when I get home.

I probably won't get gold fish and I definitely won't get betas...I want this to be an underwater paradise for all kinds of fish

There's a very general rule of thumb called the "inch per gallon rule" where you can have up to an inch of fish per gallon, but that rule becomes highly inaccurate (to your favor) in larger tanks.

Basically you have to go by the experience of others and your own discretion. Stocking should take into consideration:

1) bioload - how much the fish poops
2) the adult size of the fish and whether they require a school
3) the preferred strata of the fish - where in the tank the fish hang out

The best thing I've found is http://aqadvisor.com/ , which allows you to enter your tank dimensions/filtration/types of fish you plan to get and tells you how stocked you are. It doesn't take strata into consideration though, but that's pretty easy to figure out on your own.

I think for a 50 gallon there's three obvious ways you can go (this depends on PH and hardness of the water though)

1) A traditional community aquarium with 2-4 schools of peaceful fish + a few midsize centerpiece fish such as

Pearl Gourami:


Angelfish:



Discus (hard to take care of)



Rams (Bolivian or German, Bolivian is the first one)



img src="hthttp://farm4.staticflickr.com/3504/3462593898_91359de537.jpg">

2) A school fish-only setup (basically same as above without any large fish) with fish such as:

Harlequin Rasbora



Rummynose Tetra



Neon/Cardinal tetra (different species but look the same, Cardinal grows larger)



Panda Cory:



3) The Aggressive fish set-up, where you'd have a group of large, aggressive, territorial fish called Cichlids and nothing else (because they would kill anything else)

There are a vast variety of Cichlid types but some pictures can be found here: http://www.cichlids.com/

In fact many of the centerfish from above are Cichlids, but those types are the rare Cichlids that are peaceful and can be kept in a community set-up

edit: Don't get Goldfish because they are absurd poopers, want coldwater (the vast majority of fish are tropical), and can get HUGE. You could probably only have about 5-10 goldfish longterm in a 50G, while if you went with say Option 1 you could easily have 30+ schooling fish and 2-5 centerpeice fish without a problem.

edit2: The Oscars TMP mentioned are also Cichlids, and are supposed to be the most personable fish around--follow you around, beg for food, etc.

Yes, my oscars had personality. Miss those guys :'(

Edit: so did my beta. He was gorgeous.

i love tropical fish and all but salt water fish are the best. the colours cannot be beat. my goal, when i'm rich, is to have a nice sized salt water tank with beautiful angel fish, lion fish and those coral fish that were in that movie.

EDIT: speaking of betas, i've been told that they can cohabit with other fish as long as the tank is big and they have their own corner.

This is crazy. My parents just threw a bunch of fish in a tank and most of them lasted for years.

it's really not that crazy, i just prime the tank for 4 weeks and then throw fish in :-\

and make sure to get fish that won't eat each other :-\

and get an algae eater or your tank will turn green :-\

Wait until you have some visible algae and then get a school of otocinclus! They will absolutely destroy algae and you'll have to start feeding them cucumbers to keep them happy. They're pretty sensitive fish though. 

omfg i'm getting so excited, will probably just use this thread as my reference instead of buying a book.

Any suggestions on lighting, places to get decor, etc...

My friend has a 30 gallon high tank, I've read a high tank is not a good thing, can you explain why?  Also, how do you feel about a free 30 gallon tank versus a $50 50 gallon tank...I feel silly being insistent on the 50 gallon, how silly am I?

I think your best bet would be to search "fish store" on yelp and see what's in your area. Local fish stores will often order specific fish/equipment for you if you ask them. Of the big chain stores I've found petsmart to have a much bigger selection than petco, but petco has the cheaper tanks. Big Al's is also supposed to be amazing, but we don't have any of them in California so I have no personal experiences there.Wherever you go don't trust the employees too much, often they are not very knowledgeable (especially in stores that don't specialize in fish)

Online, I've read that the standard for equipment is http://www.drsfostersmith.com

For live fish/plants, http://www.liveaquaria.com

Shopping online usually means absurd shipping costs though, so I wouldn't do it unless your local selection is very poor and you're going to need a lot of things from online (more you order the less your shipping cost relative to your price). Shipping might also be cheaper if you find different online retailers who are located closer to where you live.

For decor, if you're going with a priate ship theme I would try my best to buy not buy it from a fish store. Fish store decorations are notoriously expensive, when really as long as the thing is not made out of a harmful type of plastic or something that will rot in the water it's fine to put in the tank. I'm sure there are toy/ornament stores around where you can get it for cheap. For substrate, I would just go with natural looking gravel or sand unless you want it to be a heavily planted aquarium, in which case you'd need to have a layer of fertilizer at the bottom of the tank (but this means you probably don't need to buy a f.ilter). I personally think if you got a ornament ship and grabbed some rocks from your neighborhood it could make for a cool tank.

Long tanks are better because:
-Most fish swim more horizontally than vertically
-There is more surface area at the top of the tank = more oxygen in the tank = you can have more fish
-easier to clean because you don't have to get wet to your armpit everytime you have to fix something
-Less light needed than a high tank to grow plants (less light diffusion by water)
-You don't have to worry as much about pump power for an airstone or CO2 diffuser (if you want to get them for one reason or another)

I would totally go with the 30 gallon tank. It's free!

I'm leaning towards natural plants, I know they're more work to keep up but I really want the aquarium to have as many living components as possible.  Living pirate ship perhaps?

That could be pretty cool, I think if you attach moss to the ship with a fishing line or something it'll start growing there.

Fish forums:
www.plantedtank.net
tropicalfishkeeping.com
www.Cichlid-forum.com

this thread is now about hydroponics

Hydro ponies*

I actually got all my light info from w.eed forums; those guys have graphs and shit about specific bulbs...the aquarium forums are more like "yes, buy that expensive thing it worked for me"

My friend has a huge aquarium that is pretty sick.

He has a brush like this which seems like a cool idea.

There's a brush inside the tank and your handle is on the outside.  Using the power of MAGNETISM you can clean off the inside of your tank.  If you move the handle too far away the brush will just float up to the surface for easy retrieval.

I cannot contribute anything else to this subject.

That's pretty cool.

That's awesome! Need to get one of those...

Ive got two 50 gallon tanks. They dont hold much, sum fake caves, feeder fish, an lovely turtles.

Bought it this weekend off Craigslist.

$200 for a 65 gallon tall tank (48"x36"x10", approx, will measure tonight) a pretty decent stand and all of the accessories needed (filters, pumps, etc...).  I will probably get some different accessories, like the lights, he's got the basic lights that sit on the top of the tank, I want some cooler ones, like LEDs that sit in different parts of the tank and emit, that way I can highlight cool parts.

Tuesday I will try to clean the whole thing and start to test the parts.  I need to see if his filter/pump are good enough for the tank, the filter I think read "for 30-60 gallon tanks", not sure how powerful the pump is either.

I'm probably going to go with cichlids, and will start working on a background project like the below link, this week

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/diy_background.php

ahhaah  clowns and pumps.

oh word filter, you're the best.

What's a clown? I've never heard of the term except for clown fish/loaches.

And that's awesome that you got such a large tank--it's very tall though, hope you like getting wet!

Yeah I was a little less than pumped about how tall it was, especially considering cichlids are apparently more of a bottom dwelling fish, HOWEVER, it does allow for some cool decorating and different strata.  I have no qualms getting wet...yet

Most Cichlids can't be kept with other fish besides a pleco due to aggression...if you have a high tank I'd either go with Angelfish Cichlids (they get to be like a foot tall and will make use of all your height) or get S. American dwarf Cichlids (they're peaceful and you can add just about any other fish with them)

So what is a clown? is it a particular type of pump?

My idea was cichlids and plecos, lots and lots and lots of cichlids (i've read that filling the tank will reduce aggression as they cannot "claim" territory that way, opinion?).  

Sounds good to me, will you still be getting a pirate ship? African Cichlids eat/uproot plants by the way, so you might want to stay away from them

AND WHATS A CLOWN

Yeah, i read that too so I won't be getting any natural plants.  Instead of a pirate ship I will scatter some lean-tos out of the same styrofoam material I will make the rock background out of.  I also intend to have some styrofoam outcroppings from the wall with fake plants on them, oh and a few tunnels...this is gonna be awesome.

I hate this site

At first i didn't understand wtf you were talking about, but I'm glad I could be of help :P

I have a lizard in a tank.

Rofl ranks thought he was really typing clown. Hahahahahahahah

i was wondering wtf you guys were talking about clowns myself.

I can type filter whenever I want

really? filter.

fusi0n is The One.
I can't even copy and paste his filter.

HACKS. SOMEONE REPORT HIM

I have discovered his filter trick.

The Dunwich Horror said:

fusi0n is The One.
I can't even copy and paste his filter.

clownpasta